In the cold months and in walls there was no problem for us. The open cell is the soft foam. 3. In internet and various in-print publications spray foam is glorified as the perfect thing to do when you renovate or build a new home. The foam acts like wood. Would you want to risk various health problems in the long-term, including the potential for cancer, just to save a few dollars on your heating and cooling bill? On the other hand, spray foam somewhat of a gamble. Thanks for the tip. sorry to hear about that. the smell might go away and as we are approaching winter it will likely become unnoticeable. In essence, you're creating your own ERV by balancing the amount of air brought into and out of your home! That’s why it’s crucial for the industry to pull in academia, and seemingly independent ‘research’ organizations that focus on home building issues. Imagine the whole house stinks like a paint factory. If the odor is coming from the foam, then there are measures that can be taken. You can't remove spray foam, and you can't make stinky spray foam quit stinking. Its like walking inside a paint can . You won’t see it on TV, you won’t hear it on the radio for a good reason. Wasn’t an issue because it was a crawl space. I had also ERVs installed, after the foam removal, which helped a lot and about 5-6 years later they were not needed anymore. When you cut through that paint layer, you made it possible for some smell to get out of the foam. Or it’s applied in layers and one layer doesn’t stick to the next well. The odor is present in those spring months, let’s say about 5% as strong as it was once. I had spray foam insulation put in my rim joists in my basement on August 29, 2016. Just like if you buy crappy windows that leak from day one, they will blame your installer, too. A number of building experts and homeowners weighed in on spray-foam insulation, and the conversation was interesting to say the least. But it does happen! • Eco Spray Foam Insulation. By sealing all air gaps in the top plate and all electrical, plumbing, and HVAC penetrations between your attic and living space, you can prevent air exchange between the attic and the rest of your house. Made with plant-based products, such as soy, eco spray foam is more eco-friendly. There are various kinds of air filters out there, many of which offer better filtration than the standard 1" pleated type. My face has been swelling since. In our climate zone, there are two options for mechanical ventilation: an ERV or a ventilating dehumidifier. The advice to spray-foam manufacturers is simple: it’s not acceptable to brush off customers with smelly foam. A home performance pro can gauge how much air is leaking from your attic to your home - and from where. Imagine the drywall needs to be hung again, how much will this cost you? Crawl spaces can be a pain to insulate with boards, however, because of the way they may be built. But it happens. Perhaps you can paint them to minimize odors, perhaps you … Hi Priya But either way, the odors are absorbed by the surrounding materials, which are studs, roof joists, sheathing, panels, etc. (http://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/chemicals-spray-polyurethane-foam-how-can-something-so-toxic-be-considered-green.html) It describes the major chemical components of spray foam. We had success with an energy recovery ventilator. If it is the soft type of foam, you can use a nail stripper, it works well, or a small shovel. A bad spray foam job can really stink. If you now have an unventilated attic, it may turn into a sauna like mine did, especially if the house wasn’t built with a vented roof system. The Icynine odor still persists nine years later despite complete removal and replacement with XPS pink foam boards. Because they are made in a factory under very well controlled conditions, the risk for a ‘smelly’ board is very low. The moisture appears to be also triggering some chemical reaction, which makes the smell stronger. A friend of mine once said, ‘think of the most bizarre conspiracy theory of how X might be exploiting people. We’ve been busy repairing our home, not living there yet, but the smell like wet paint after a few weeks is still there. Even for these few especially-sensitive people, this smell usually disappears within a few days of application. This wasn't a new foam job. For odor control, the best option is an activated carbon filter. SPF has an odor during the application process and for some time after. However, you usually can keep the bad smell out of your home. After the foam was installed, there was an obvious sweet smell in the gym. Sand the wood down to get the smallest pieces. Is there commonly a smell after insulation that goes away after a couple of weeks? They can use a tool called “nail stripper” to take it down fast, as long as it is the soft kind of foam, the open cell kind. And if you've got ductwork up there, those ducts might be leaky. This step is a smart add-on to whatever ventilation strategy you choose. If you smell it next spring keep pressuring them to pay for removal costs. Savas, Just Purchased a new constructed home in Mesa Arizona June 1st 2019. It’s been about 5 months since the foam was installed and the odor of paint has been really bad. If you ask me, the risks outweigh all potential benefits. If your kid starts developing a sore throat or a cough I would definitely recommend sleeping downstairs for a while. Tape might work in some places as well, as long as it sticks to the board well I didn’t bother testing the air as I expected the results to be of no use in court. This step is optional, but you may want to pursue it anyway. In-Depth: What's the Best Backup Scheme and Strategy? The good news is that there's almost always a solution. While open cell foam smells like paint, closed cell foam has a rotten fish smell to it. It absorbs moisture in the winter, especially the wood under the roof. Homeowner communication is key from day one. Now, when you walk in, you would not notice any smell. By triangulate I mean to look for several independent info sources describing the same thing. Installation with boards can be much more expensive as it requires cutting and gluing, plus you have to make sure the ends/gaps between boards are spray foamed (with a can of gap filler foam) to prevent air flow past the boards. Thank you. Some odors only last for maybe an hour or two, while others can last much longer if the space to be insulated isn’t well ventilated. This appears to help. Spray Foam Insulation Health Risks. lingering spray foam odor in their home, they probably won’t be disappointed. I guess some reactions need to finish and the heat and moisture in the summer appear to be helping. Imagine how much labor this is going to be. No matter what's causing the spray foam to stink, it still, you know… stinks. Most people with spray foam insulation do not have this problem. Hi John the new spray foam will likely cover the old smell. The marketing message is hidden over many steps. It’s terrible. Perhaps you could hire someone to go in there and spray paint the area with odor-neutralizing primer first. Originally thought we had fresh paint odor small 3 months have past so far It is September 6 2019 . Unfortunately wood absorbs odors for a long time, so if the smell is really bad, painting over it might not help much. The underside of the roof is in my opinion the most important one to remove, because that’s where the heat is in the summer and that’s where the moisture goes and gets ‘stored’. When you raise children, you mind has to be in negativity mode. Rock wool and fiberglass allow air and hence odors to move through, so you will want to ventilate somehow to the outside. All you need to do is publish enough propaganda to push everything in Google to page 2. He was in there almost every day for several months. Don't worry about the mess or headaches. Imagine your kids running downstairs in the middle of the night, feeling sick with a migraine, coughing, telling you it stinks up there and they can’t sleep. After reading this article and other stories i am second guessing this. What I should have done to improve the cleanup, and I only did it partially, is to spray paint the exposed wood with water-based primer after removing the foam. We use the best equipment and closed-cell foam. When all major stations are corporate controlled, there isn’t much free press to begin with. We had even painted the exposed wood with primer. Had it been inside the house we would have went straight to court…. This log will help when you go seek legal advice against the installer. Spray Foam Insulation: The Essentials. Misconception: The Spray Foam Will Smell for Years It’s important to know exactly what your contractor is spraying in your home and that they are an experienced foam insulation contractor. Perhaps you can paint them to minimize odors, perhaps you may have to remove the entire frame of your house. Closed cell foam is risky business. I did find out that it was open cell used to insulate the house, not closed cell as was previously mentioned. Another thing that will help is when you install the drywall over the spray foam, as is required by fire code when spray foam is used in a habitable space. When applying any paints to spray foam, you really need to wait for a full cure of the spray foam … The surrounding air at the project site needs to be in a certain temperature range and humidity range. The icynene open cell foam we had installed 7 years ago was removed (I don’t think that’s an option for you as closed cell foam is really hard to remove) and the odor finally faded after 7 years(! 2. We recommend the Carbon Clean 16. Eventually, I had all the walls torn down and the foam removed, as best we could. They will smell it. We've actually published an article about humidity in spray-foamed attics that discusses possible solutions to this problem. If possible also record temp and humidity levels inside your house. Installing spray polyurethane foam insulation, even in an already occupied home, usually just results in greater comfort, increased energy-savings, and more homeowner happiness. What do you do? Such is the plight of some homeowners following an attic spray foam insulation project. Like you said, it’s worse in summer. Imagine you and your kids getting headaches all the time. Until then, try to keep the windows open if possible That’s why they have to wear full body protection, obviously, as this type of gas is extremely toxic. I’ve hired a HVAC contractor and told me that, when they encapsulated the attic they still should have a fresh air breathing intake. And when you contact manufacturers and installers about spray foam odors and dangers, what do you get? Too often the situation is described as an odor problem . These aren’t exceptions. If you're really serious about indoor air quality and odor control, consider a Pure Air system, which combines contains a carbon filter and a HEPA filter. I had also confirmed the moisture-retaining characteristic of open cell foam experimentally by simply placing a large chunk of foam in a sealed transparent plastic bag with a hygrometer inside, then exposing it to heat. The activated carbon coating is what distinguishes it from other media filters and absorbs strong smells so that they don't circulate throughout your home. I documented everything, but with the smell I obviously got nowhere. What are the alternatives? Slowly these substances are given off to the surrounding air….not just for 24 hours; rather, many, many years. Just like IKEA tells you to vent the mattress for 3-4 days for it to “regain its shape”, which is non-sense, because the rolled up mattress instantly goes back to its shape. The spray foam will still give off an odor, but it will leave your attic through the exhaust fan instead of percolating downward. It's possible to have a bad spray foam smell and not know why. The health effects of ‘bad spray foam’ are serious and real. Does the rigid foam board emit these fumes/gases as well, or would that be the best kind to get? From a green ‘tree-hugger’ perspective, the last thing you would want is petroleum based products polluting the environment. is it impossible to do anything about it? Lots and lots of things can go wrong and barely anyone will tell you much about it because there is simply too much money in the game, so don’t expect honesty from this industry. If your indoor HVAC unit is inside your spray-foamed attic, that means you've got ductwork up there. It’s the off-gassing of harmful chemicals that is the problem. This option should be pursued independently of the first two. Thank you all for your comments. That worked for me. The solution generally involves some combination of isolating the stinky attic air, replacing attic air with indoor air, ventilating your living space, and aggressively filtering the air moving through your HVAC system. Try to get ‘witnesses’ into your house so you have proof in case you have to take legal action against the installer later…or at least threaten to do so. I’m not sure what to do now. Savas. Sometimes, sealing the top plate in a spray foamed attic can create humidity problems. Replaced it with natural rock wool. I asked Mac Sheldon, Western region manager for Demilec foam, how many spray foam jobs result in odor complaints. Excuses are plenty, and somehow it’s never the manufacturer’s fault. After determining whether a lot of attic air is leaking into your home and identifying the areas of greatest air leakage, there are a few ways to proceed: Sometimes, installing an exhaust fan is the answer. Look at this video of a real family (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPxg9IlYnWg titled “Demilec Sealection 500 Open Cell Spray Foam nightmare odor”) suffering from a spray foam installation that went wrong. After the third summer heat it finally cured I guess and the smell went away. It's hard to enjoy your home when it smells bad. If it’s the roof, for example, you could add a separate ventilation system in the attic. If you can locate a particular area where the smell comes from, that would help, too. The installer removed most of the insulation from the attic and inside the walls replace it with Rockwool in the walls and planning to spay closed cell (a different product) in the attic since the attic has no vents. In reality, lots of money is being exchanged under the table to ensure certain technologies are highlighted and recommended by the ‘expert’. hi, What are the benefits of spray foam versus traditional insulation? In other words, air will circulate from your home to your attic. If it’s not good you can’t remove it…. I had a similar situation and had to rip everything out. What’s going on out there is that many people are sickened by spray foam in their own house and don’t know it yet because they never thought it’s the spray foam causing it. Ventilation systems exchange old, stale indoor air (and in your case, stinky indoor air) for fresh, filtered outdoor air. A small percentage of people can smell very low (but safe) concentrations of chemicals called amine catalysts, which are used in all spray foams. In addition, if the spray foam is improperly installed in the home it could create a hazardous environment where the chemical odor produced from this insulation material will last in the environment for a long duration of time and compromise human health upon exposure. It's a media filter designed for high quality filtration, maximum airflow, and odor removal. The industry prefers to blame the installer for everything. We insulated it with spray foam. So any odor detected by especially-sensitive people is safe from a health standpoint. I personally would use XPS. Foam will cure out 75% in the first 5 seconds and full cure in 24 Hours. However the odor is now very faint and barely noticeable. Perhaps you may have to tear down your entire house because there is no way to remove the chemicals. I mainly work on Windows Server and Hyper-V backup. If these cases aren’t quickly resolved, the dead-fish smell is likely to taint the entire industry. The smell is reducing as we speak and i have the window open in the top floor. 3593 Clearview Pkwy Atlanta, GA 30340 We're an Atlanta HVAC and home performance company that has encountered this problem many times and helped people solve it. You'll need to do something about that, so let's explore your options. I have still probably about 50-100 cubic feet of this foam in the walls around the floor where it was too difficult to remove. It’s likely this odor might take quite some time to fade, so fresh air is likely the only healthy option. (See how unwanted content is removed from the internet). Not the other way around. In my opinion, too many variable factors make it impossible to predict how long “it lasts”, or “how strong it’ll be”, etc. Unless someone clearly establishes cause and effect, in court, such as how these spray foam particles in the air cause respiratory inflammation, the industry won’t change anything about their products or practices. First, we tried a massive carbon air filtration system. Or, for that matter, your nose and lungs. Sure. Two things to take away from this: 1) don’t ever use spray foam; and 2) air testing reports are not worth the paper they are written on (all 3 reports I obtained varied wildly; they have no idea what is in the air). Spray foam cleanup under the roof was very difficult. They will stick their finger in the electric receptacle, swallow the coin on the floor, put the lead paint in their mouth, swallow the toy, etc. Energy Recovery Ventilator (ERV) Services, COVID-19: Learn How We're Helping to Keep You Safe. In some cases, you'll have to install a dehumidifier in your attic. Determine how strong the odor is and if it is likely to dissipate within a reasonable amount of time. I felt sorry for the office workers…. can anyone help with some info thank you. It has now been two and a half years later and I just let him back in the gym. I recently had an issue with open cell foam insulation throughout a new addition – including the attic and the insulation inside walls facing the outside. I am almost 2 years into the open cell foam salty taste and still in air and we moved and had yale hospital come out they test environment, they said my home beautiful doesn’t smell have you opened windows of house I said of course for over yr and looked for spray foam remeator, keep windows open and don’t say to anyone of spray smell, I felt like I was nuts, but realized yay new haven hospital is funded by government. I have been to many various doctors, Now I’m seeing a environmental doctor. Move out if possible or have them pay for foam removal and restoration costs. If you cover all walls and the roof from outside with XPS, your home will be very well insulated, without the odors and without anything potentially causing problems with your lungs. Or, try the legal route. Pull down the drywall, which costs tens of thousands to install. What do u think I should do? Not any more!!! Here's a potential problem with this option. An R-value is the measure of the resistance to the flow of heat. Properly applied by a professional, spray foam should emit relatively low fumes that will altogether dissipate in about a week. While open cell foam smells like paint, closed cell foam has a rotten fish smell to it. Savas, I moved out of home after spray foam nightmare OPEN CELL IN CRAWL SPACE ON HOTTEST DAY OF YR AND NO ONE CAME BACK TO CHECK WHEN LARRY JANESKI SENT IMMIGRANTS TO INSTALL I MOVED took little furniture or window cover and bed linens, the taste is here in condo almost 2 1/2 yrs how could I RID IN MY CAR AND HOMEWHEN i WASH MY HAIR i TASTE IT WHAT WILL TAKE IT OUT I OPEN WINDOWS EVEN IN WINTER HELP, where in connecticut fold county is there a reputable ERV company in install air intake to rid after 2 yrs taste of spray foam brought in condo after moving, Your email address will not be published. But the off-gassing is likely to go on indefinitely at varying levels. It has been one long nightmare. The chemicals are supposed to be kept in a certain temperature and pressure range. The spray foam stinks, and the smell is infiltrating their living space. I hope I’m wrong…. And if you can't get the bad smell to go away, that's even worse. Typically the smell will go away in a week or less. Spray Foam Insulation Odor Inspections When it comes to the investigation of nuisance odors associated with the application of spray polyurethane foam SPF insulation, I’ve found that most of the investigations typically involve little more than varied attempts at trying to chemically associate the odor with the off-gassing of the SPF. Compare the efficiency of traditional insulation versus spray foam insulation. They even claimed there was “no smell” noticeable, which is of course ridiculous. I definitely don’t won’t to make a mistake on insulation, Hi Camille I am sorry to hear you have lung disease. Your email address will not be published. Second, we tried adding ventilation. Foam. The attic isn't getting much ventilation, so humidity can accumulate inside. Thanks, Hi Matthew the pink or blue XPS (extruded polystyrene) boards do off-gas for a very short time. And will covering the rafter with 7 inch of closed cell seal the smell? Then in the spring when it gets hot, it can’t hold the moisture anymore and dumps it in the surrounding air. We are building a new home and researching about insulation. Where Not to Use Spray Foam Insulation The potential for off-gassing of volatile chemicals from spray polyurethane foam is not fully understood and is an area where more research is needed. The problem lies in how the contractor handles the odor. Here's why you might have to do this: In either case, the manufacturer should be able to test the foam and see what's going on. Good luck! I documented the fact how the foam absorbs moisture and releases it again when it get hot. Savas. Products with a higher R-value provide greater insulation. In open-cell foam, the blowing agent gas is not trapped by the forming cells that are not completely closed but are broken, and the small spaces within the foam are filled with air. This can be very problematic for the spf installers. It’s very important to use an ERV with washable core I found out the hard way; otherwise, there will be dirt in the air that may give you other respiratory problems…. When homes are damaged with uncured spray foam, often the tell-tale sign is a bad odor. You will notice as temps go down the smell will go away. Open-cell spray foam insulation. In the case of the closed cell foam (blue foam BASF), the ‘dead fish’ odor went away after 3 years. It’s hard like a potato, good luck trying to remove it. When you pair one of these systems with an attic exhaust fan to depressurize the attic, the ventilating dehumidifier is a better choice. Hi Judy Because it is impossible to mix chemicals on-site perfectly and it’s impossible to control the environment, the in-balance is almost certain to happen. Still working with Ozone as of today in main room and Garage Total Nightmare, Hi Mike I’m sorry to hear you are in this situation. Hi all. The spray foam will have a odor as it off gasses. A wall of denial! I let my son use the gym. When I went to the installers building to pick up my refund check (plus some cleanup money I managed to negotiate with them to avoid legal arguments), the exact same sweet foam smell was noticeable as soon as I went through the door. I would definitely not recommend spray foam, not even to my ‘worst enemy’ (if I had one(^_^)) The interesting detail is the enormous volume of foam you have under the roof, compared to the rather few cubic feet of wood material. We hope that everyone finds a solution to their problems and we thank you all again for saving us from this horror. Due to smell it ; that depends on the other will cause different chemical reactions t smell or..., ridge, gable or any other venting ) must be removed or completely covered traditional insulation versus foam. Floor where it was open cell foam smells will not make it stop smelling even worse soft type of,... 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